So while browsing the web I came across this thread on another forum about gearbox oil changes. Plan on doing this soon as well ![Thumbs]( "Thumbs")
http://www.bmwland.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=101036
Hi Guys,
Extrmely pleased with my 184bhp 330d Auto Touring that i inherited from my father last weekend. its in immaculate condition!
One thing i wasn't so happy to find was that the autobox with 130k miles on had never had an oil change. Futher research came up with whole "sealed for life" :banned: that caused me some surprise!
Having had some experience with rebuilding failed GM and ZF gearboxes in the past (when used for racing off road trucks), it is absolutely critical that if oil has started to burn (by going black and smelling burnt) that you remove as MUCh oil as possible from the box, flush as much of the oil cooler and feed lines as possible and change the filter. You can also dissolve some of the varnished that build up on the box by addind specific additives (and i don't mean snake oil like "Snick 60").
It is generally accepted that an autobox that lasts 50k miles will happily last 500k miles if looked after. In general auto are much more reliable than manuals when properly cared for, as they are inherently "soft" on the transmission. The killer of an autobox is heat and burnt oil from the heat. Overheat the box once and the oil starts to break down and "carbonise", the carbon acts as a catalyst and effects more of the box. Heat will also form varnishes on the clutch packs, harden seals and deposit sludge around the box. Every 20 degree reduction in heat in the box doubles its life! If you can run an auto at 88celsius without fail, then the box will never fail- the vehicle will fall apart around it!
The problem with replacing old oil in a box which has 130k on it with new oil is that the sludge deposited in the T/C (torque converter) and coolant lines is re-suspended and can block valvebodies and solenoids with catastrophic results- there will be no lockup and the box can even do funny things like select 3 gears at once- not good.
replacing the oil at home is very very difficult as oil will always be left in the T/C- think of it like a big hollow doughnut with entry and exit points at the "hole" in the mddle of the doughnut. If you lift the front of the vehicle by 12" then more oil will drain from the T/C- it definteily helps but its not ideal as there will still be 2-3l of old oil left in the T/C- which will contaminate and destroy our new shiney oil.
[The below instructions have the potential to trash your car and cause a serious accident which could kill someone- be VERY careful- you do this on your own responsibility]
There is one way of fully replacing ALL The oil in a gearbox at home. Get under the vehicle and identify the cooler lines to and from the auto. Jack the back of the car up and secure (this bit is very very important). Get 3 buckets, make sure one is spotlessly clean. Fill the clean bucket with your finest oil (in certain circumstances this will be BMW spec fully synth stuff at silly money- £10/l +). Disconnect cooler lines from the cooler (NOT from the autbox), and attach sections of pipe to each cooler line (you will have one feeding hot oil to the cooler and one returning oil). Put the ends of the pipe in the buckets. Get a friend to stif in the car, start the engine and very very very briefly but the car into gear. One pipe will start pushing oil, and one will start sucking. Put the clean bucket with new oil under the "sucking" pipe, and leave your dirty oild buckets under the "pushing" pipe. Now get your friend to start the car and put it in gear again (hence why you better make sure the car is properly jacked and secured)- the gearboxes own oil pump will now pump out all the oil crappy oil and pump IN all the posh clean oil. When you have clean coming out of the return pipe then turn the car off.
At this point you should drop the sump from the gearbox, change the filter, then try and clean the oil cooler as best you can. Reattach the sump, fill oil to level, run engine for thirty seconds, putting car into D and R and then refill to correct level. Job Done.
All in this method is likely to take 50% more oil than the box can hold, so you better mke sure you have this level of oil handy as well as some spare. Its a method that works very very well- once used it to "fix" a box when stuck inthe middle of an Erg in the Sahara!
[warnning off!]
Frankly for all the faffing above you're better off finding a transmission specalist (and they aren't common), to do the work for you. I found a place in Reading who charged £230inc vat to properly flush the box- they remove almost all the old fluid, should flush the feed lines and oil cooler, and replace the filter for this price. Very happy with guys that did mine- spoke to the tech and he really seemed to know what he was doing in a comforting "geeky" sort of way!
The oil that came out of my car was horrible- black and smelling burnt- it should be Clear, colourless and red. The black oil clearly shows that the oil was well past its best, and that there may already be terminal damage to the box- varnishes on the clutch bands and hardened seals. However because the new oil going in is fully synth (and almost ALL the old oil was replaced), and a trans additive was added, some of the varnishes will dissolve, the seals will hopefully recondition (they are natural rubber a lot of them and can be reconditioned to a certain extent), and the box should live on. It makes sense to have the box re-serviced in 12,000miles or so to remove the newly contaminated oil and change the filter which will hopefully catch all the resuspended crap and NOT fully clog.
There is a risk that my box will fail catastrophically within the next few hundred/thousand miles and there is NOTHING i can do about it. BUT if i hadn't changed the oil, then the box will definitely have failed sometime soon (considering the state of the oil i would say within the next 6000 miles). With the new oil, as long as i don't have a failure shortly, then the box will live forever.
The difference after having the fluid change is immense- the box locks up earlier, holds gears better, and the changes are MUCH crisper (sharp crips changes are a very very good thing on an auto and show that it is in good condition and that it will last some time). Unsurprisingly the economy seems to have improved by up to 4mpg taking me well over 43mpg average!
Happy to post up a quick description of an auto box, and torque converter lockup if anyone woudl find it useful.
http://www.bmwland.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=101036
Hi Guys,
Extrmely pleased with my 184bhp 330d Auto Touring that i inherited from my father last weekend. its in immaculate condition!
One thing i wasn't so happy to find was that the autobox with 130k miles on had never had an oil change. Futher research came up with whole "sealed for life" :banned: that caused me some surprise!
Having had some experience with rebuilding failed GM and ZF gearboxes in the past (when used for racing off road trucks), it is absolutely critical that if oil has started to burn (by going black and smelling burnt) that you remove as MUCh oil as possible from the box, flush as much of the oil cooler and feed lines as possible and change the filter. You can also dissolve some of the varnished that build up on the box by addind specific additives (and i don't mean snake oil like "Snick 60").
It is generally accepted that an autobox that lasts 50k miles will happily last 500k miles if looked after. In general auto are much more reliable than manuals when properly cared for, as they are inherently "soft" on the transmission. The killer of an autobox is heat and burnt oil from the heat. Overheat the box once and the oil starts to break down and "carbonise", the carbon acts as a catalyst and effects more of the box. Heat will also form varnishes on the clutch packs, harden seals and deposit sludge around the box. Every 20 degree reduction in heat in the box doubles its life! If you can run an auto at 88celsius without fail, then the box will never fail- the vehicle will fall apart around it!
The problem with replacing old oil in a box which has 130k on it with new oil is that the sludge deposited in the T/C (torque converter) and coolant lines is re-suspended and can block valvebodies and solenoids with catastrophic results- there will be no lockup and the box can even do funny things like select 3 gears at once- not good.
replacing the oil at home is very very difficult as oil will always be left in the T/C- think of it like a big hollow doughnut with entry and exit points at the "hole" in the mddle of the doughnut. If you lift the front of the vehicle by 12" then more oil will drain from the T/C- it definteily helps but its not ideal as there will still be 2-3l of old oil left in the T/C- which will contaminate and destroy our new shiney oil.
[The below instructions have the potential to trash your car and cause a serious accident which could kill someone- be VERY careful- you do this on your own responsibility]
There is one way of fully replacing ALL The oil in a gearbox at home. Get under the vehicle and identify the cooler lines to and from the auto. Jack the back of the car up and secure (this bit is very very important). Get 3 buckets, make sure one is spotlessly clean. Fill the clean bucket with your finest oil (in certain circumstances this will be BMW spec fully synth stuff at silly money- £10/l +). Disconnect cooler lines from the cooler (NOT from the autbox), and attach sections of pipe to each cooler line (you will have one feeding hot oil to the cooler and one returning oil). Put the ends of the pipe in the buckets. Get a friend to stif in the car, start the engine and very very very briefly but the car into gear. One pipe will start pushing oil, and one will start sucking. Put the clean bucket with new oil under the "sucking" pipe, and leave your dirty oild buckets under the "pushing" pipe. Now get your friend to start the car and put it in gear again (hence why you better make sure the car is properly jacked and secured)- the gearboxes own oil pump will now pump out all the oil crappy oil and pump IN all the posh clean oil. When you have clean coming out of the return pipe then turn the car off.
At this point you should drop the sump from the gearbox, change the filter, then try and clean the oil cooler as best you can. Reattach the sump, fill oil to level, run engine for thirty seconds, putting car into D and R and then refill to correct level. Job Done.
All in this method is likely to take 50% more oil than the box can hold, so you better mke sure you have this level of oil handy as well as some spare. Its a method that works very very well- once used it to "fix" a box when stuck inthe middle of an Erg in the Sahara!
[warnning off!]
Frankly for all the faffing above you're better off finding a transmission specalist (and they aren't common), to do the work for you. I found a place in Reading who charged £230inc vat to properly flush the box- they remove almost all the old fluid, should flush the feed lines and oil cooler, and replace the filter for this price. Very happy with guys that did mine- spoke to the tech and he really seemed to know what he was doing in a comforting "geeky" sort of way!
The oil that came out of my car was horrible- black and smelling burnt- it should be Clear, colourless and red. The black oil clearly shows that the oil was well past its best, and that there may already be terminal damage to the box- varnishes on the clutch bands and hardened seals. However because the new oil going in is fully synth (and almost ALL the old oil was replaced), and a trans additive was added, some of the varnishes will dissolve, the seals will hopefully recondition (they are natural rubber a lot of them and can be reconditioned to a certain extent), and the box should live on. It makes sense to have the box re-serviced in 12,000miles or so to remove the newly contaminated oil and change the filter which will hopefully catch all the resuspended crap and NOT fully clog.
There is a risk that my box will fail catastrophically within the next few hundred/thousand miles and there is NOTHING i can do about it. BUT if i hadn't changed the oil, then the box will definitely have failed sometime soon (considering the state of the oil i would say within the next 6000 miles). With the new oil, as long as i don't have a failure shortly, then the box will live forever.
The difference after having the fluid change is immense- the box locks up earlier, holds gears better, and the changes are MUCH crisper (sharp crips changes are a very very good thing on an auto and show that it is in good condition and that it will last some time). Unsurprisingly the economy seems to have improved by up to 4mpg taking me well over 43mpg average!
Happy to post up a quick description of an auto box, and torque converter lockup if anyone woudl find it useful.